Bob writes,
I had read all the various positions after God saved and just decided upon Pretrib. I never was sure and was confused by a lot of verses. Of course I felt good that I wouldn’t have to suffer at all (my built-in fleshy bias!). Then God laid it on my heart to seriously study it in 2007, and praise God He opened my eyes! From Marvin Rosenthal, Charles Cooper, Robert Van Kampen, Alan Kurschner, and others, Scripture became clear and all the verses harmonized! I rejoiced!
I then went back to my Pretrib books wondering how I was so easily deceived. Very simply – mention only a few verses and makes lots of assumptions about those verses. My jaw dropped when I saw how easily I was wrong! Now, about 8 years later as the Lord taught me how to interpret His Word, it was wonderful to see how the PreWrath teachings naturally reveal God’s clear prophetic timeline.
They placed their markers at PreWrath since they could see verses line up, however, it would take more study to understand it fully.
I then created a chart to visualize the sequence of events and taught our Bible study group. My chart had the 4 viewpoints and I gave each person a Rapture marker and 10 verses on puzzle pieces that linked the chronology of events. I then asked them to arrange their puzzle pieces using the ‘face-value’ interpretation and then put their Rapture marker on the chart where they thought it would occur. They placed their markers at PreWrath since they could see verses line up, however, it would take more study to understand it fully.
So I praise God that He even chose to reveal the future to us; what a blessing! Especially in this day and age!
Bob
For the day of the LORD is approaching for all the nations! Just as you have done, so it will be done to you. You will get exactly what your deeds deserve. (Obad 1:15 NET)
Obadiah, though the shortest book in the Old Testament, gives a grave warning to the nations of God’s eschatological judgment. And Obadiah reminds Edom that because of their antagonistic treatment with their neighbor Israel (which is also their ancestral brother Jacob), he warns Edom of recompense. Obadiah teaches us that injustice can run, but it cannot hide–there will be Divine poetic justice. Wrongdoing against God’s people requires divine reckoning. Obadiah encapsulates for us his primary message in verse fifteen, “Just as you have done, so it will be done to you. You will get exactly what your deeds deserve.”
This past weekend, Mal Couch writes,
Dr. Couch, what do you think of Marvin Rosenthal’s Pre-wrath rapture position?
ANSWER: When you want Bible answers listen to those capable of truly exegeting the Scriptures. Rosenthal has virtually no biblical training. Those of us who have had years and years of strong theology, and hours and hours of the biblical languages, are far better qualified to explain the truth, and that is in this case, the fact is that the rapture of the church is clearly a PRE-TRIBULATIONAL RAPTURE!
He is bold behind a keyboard, but I challenge him to put his money where his mouth is. I would love to debate Mal Couch in a moderated public debate and challenge his assertions in cross-examination. Of course, this is unlikely since many pretrib teachers insulate themselves from being challenged publicly. I even question if Couch knows Greek. Sure, he must have taken it during seminary, and since then maybe picked up a lexicon every so often, but reading his material I am given the impression that he is all bluster.
In his remaining short blog post, he misquoted Rosenthal putting words in his mouth and did not even document his statements so someone can check the veracity of its accurateness! (I know that he misquoted Rosenthal because I am familiar with his material). Apparently, Couch assumes that he does not have to be scholarly and quote and document properly. His word must be gospel.
Couch attempts to argue grammatically that Revelation 6:16-17 refutes Prewrath. I have responded to him before on this and have shown him that he has committed grammatical fallacies, which are documented here in the second half of the article. I have never received any response from my exegesis on that text.
Some people ask me why I pick on low-hanging fruit such as Couch. First, I do so infrequently. Second, every popular pretrib teacher has some following, so it is my hope that there are some out there who will see these responses. I do prefer, though, to respond to the best arguments out there. But, sadly, sometimes the really bad argumentation can be influential.
If you have not heard it yet, back ten years ago, Cooper and Best debated (although, not containing cross-examination) Couch and a few other individuals. The upshot of the debate was that Couch lost the debate, which resulted in him angrily exiting the building immediately after the debate. We never have received a debate invitation from a pretrib teacher since then. And they have turned down our debate offers. I think that speaks volumes: Prewrathers are willing to defend their position publicly under cross-examination; but Pretribbers…are not. Additionally, it has been my experience that pretribbers do not link to prewrath articles, or cite from specific books and page numbers, when they respond to them. But Prewrathers have nothing to hide, just as in this blog post I have linked Couch’s article for all to verify my statements. Again, very telling.
Here is that debate audio.
“Last week I remembered the words which Barack Hussein Obama made while still on the campaign trail. He said that one of the most melodious and beautiful sounds in the world is the Islamic call to prayer, which by the way rings forth from the minarets here six times a day. Last Tuesday as the Mullah was shouting out his statement that ‘there is no God but Allah’, for the 9:00 pm call to prayer, a Sunni Muslim man was on his knees in my home confessing to God his sin of rejecting Jesus Christ as the Son of God. Yes [he] received Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior. That is a beautiful and melodious sound as is the song of the angels rejoicing over this sinner that came to repentance.”
Please keep this missionary to the Muslims in your prayers.